Anna Karamanou: “We are the last country in the EU in terms of equality indicators”

December 5, 2021

Interview with Anna Karamanou on the occasion of her book “Sapiens – The Peaceful Uprising of Females, 1821-2021,” published by Armos Editions.

By Eleni Korovila

You titled your study “Sapiens.” Why? What does the word summarize about what you call the “peaceful uprising of females” that has taken place from 1821 to the present?

In my book, I write about the peaceful uprising of female sapiens, that is, female humans, who wrote their own history over the 200 years of the modern Greek state, claiming their fundamental human rights. There were periods in history when women were not even recognized as living beings belonging to the human species. Everything was measured by the male (homo sapiens). The word sapiens means wise, knowledgeable, rational, which are the main characteristics of the human species, which has two sexes, male and female. In recent years, the greatest peaceful revolution of all time has taken place: The emergence of half of the human species, the female sapiens, from centuries of obscurity and subjugation into the forefront of history and politics! My book places these silenced struggles of women into the modern history of Greece from 1821 to 2021.

Two hundred years after the 1821 Revolution, Greece has a President of the Republic, a distinguished judge, Katerina Sakellaropoulou. Is the strong symbolism enough to accelerate changes in society?

Symbols have incredible power! Look at the “Athonite” of Mount Athos! The election of Katerina Sakellaropoulou is of great value and signifies further progress in gender equality and the distribution of positions of responsibility between men and women. Her election is the culmination of 200 years of persistent feminist struggles. She overturned many patriarchal stereotypes. She honors the highest state office with her public presence. She is close to the citizens, especially the most vulnerable, an animal lover, socially sensitive, with a humanitarian approach and progressive ideas regarding human rights, climate change, the environment, and gender equality. She justifies our expectations for a different presidency, beyond formalities and protocols, and symbolizes yet another victory for women!

How do you comment on the view that behind the increase in cases of violence against women and femicides in our country, there might be a challenge to the role of the father in society? In your opinion, what is the cause of this dramatic increase?

Behind the surge in violence is the reorganization of gender roles. Today, women work, are educated, and have equal rights and responsibilities as men. The recognition of gender equality as a universal value by the UN, the EU, international organizations, and legal systems has brought about changes in theory and practice, which the “dominant gender” struggles to assimilate. The fact that women today do not accept roles of subjugation to the “male master” enrages many, as they perceive the fight for gender equality and justice as a zero-sum game (whatever you gain, I lose!). In their desperation, they even play the role of the victim! They claim that women are supposedly questioning the role of the father! When exactly did they ever fulfill this role? Historically, only the role of the mother was glorified, and this was associated with the deprivation of basic freedoms and rights. The increase in violence and femicides, as well as all other inequalities, have as their primary cause the unequal distribution of power between the sexes and the desperate efforts of male sapiens to maintain their power and privileges at the expense of female sapiens.

(…) the reputation of the “good child” is rewarded with votes and positions.

We saw the Greek manifestation of the #metoo movement through revelations and specific accusations from the fields of sports and art. In politics, however, we did not see similar accusations. Why?

Politicians are certainly more cautious than artists and athletes, because, on one hand, they are accountable to their voters, and on the other, the reputation of the “good child” is rewarded with votes and positions. Thus, flirting in the political sphere is unlikely to take the form of rape. Sports and art are the primary, though not the only, hotbeds of macho culture.

(…) the specific event of six male candidates for the presidency of KINAL contradicts any claim that women were strengthened and promoted during her tenure.

The recent death of Fofi Gennimata was considered to have highlighted feminine qualities in politics, and that with her brave and dignified stance, she left an important legacy. How do you evaluate the fact that of the six candidates for the leadership of KINAL, there is not a single woman?

Fofi Gennimata was a brave, dignified, and intelligent woman who, as the first president of KINAL, overturned many established practices of excluding women from decision-making centers and political power. As a leader, she emitted a strong symbolism that strengthened feminist struggles. However, the fact that there are six male candidates for the presidency of KINAL contradicts any claim that women were strengthened and promoted during her tenure.

For what reasons do women still lag so far behind in positions of power and leadership in our country? Do you agree with the implementation of quotas (in ballots, boards of directors, etc.)?

We are the last country in the EU in terms of equality indicators (EIGE, 2020 data), and our political system does not seem to be moved or take any action. The quota is not an invention of Greek feminists. This claim was first raised by the late feminist Aliki Giotopoulou-Marangopoulou in 1989, inspired by the good practices of other advanced countries, such as the Scandinavian ones, which had started in the 1960s with very good results. This was followed by the pan-European campaign “Women in Decision-Making Centers” in 1992 and the creation of the Political Women’s Association. The quota system, in the context of a society with harsh patriarchy, is not insulting to women. What is insulting for the country is the male monopoly and Middle Eastern mentalities.

The historical exclusion of women from the public sphere and the identification of politics with men, as expected, has negatively affected the confidence and self-esteem of female sapiens, leading them to believe that men are more capable of governing the world. Beyond legal equality, accompanying measures are needed. One of these is the administrative measure of quotas. Unfortunately, in Greece, this measure has been used to humiliate women in various degrading ways. The example of the recent triple elections of 2019 is glaring! My book discusses this in detail, with evidence. The quota system is correct! It just needs proper implementation!

A study by the IMF supports that adding just one woman to the board of directors or another senior administrative position in a company is linked to an increase in return on assets (ROA) by 7 to 8 percentage points. How seriously does Greece take these findings?

A milestone in the history of the fight for women’s equal rights is the Treaty of Rome and Article 119 on equal pay. Why, 65 years later, do we not see it clearly reflected in practice? Do we need more laws to integrate it into the Greek labor reality, or is something else missing?

The Treaty of Rome was a significant moment in history, as was Article 119 on equal pay, which became the legal foundation for European equality policy, following the decisions of the UN after the end of World War II. Initially, its implementation was set to be completed by the end of 1964. However, it proved to be one of the most difficult endeavors. Governments ignored equal pay, which led the European Commission to take legislative initiatives later on to overcome resistance. In 1975, it issued the first Directive 75/117/EEC on the implementation of equal pay, i.e., Article 119 of the Treaty. The Directive clarifies that equal pay applies not only to workers doing the same job, but also to those performing work of equal value. Moreover, the evaluation of work should be based on the same criteria for both men and women.
In Greece, much has been done (legislation and programs) to promote gender equality and eliminate the distinction between male and female professions. However, outdated mindsets, stereotypes, and employer arbitrariness undermine the implementation of the law and progress. A study by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) documents the anti-development role of discrimination and inequality against female potential: “If women’s employment levels were equal to those of men, growth would be faster and more resilient. For the 50% of countries with the worst performance on equality issues, closing the gap could add an average of 35% to GDP!”

In your book, you refer to the history of women’s suffrage in Greece. From the 1934 legislation by Venizelos to the mass voting in 1952, almost two decades passed. Why are the societal resistances to change so strong? How strong do you believe patriarchal stereotypes remain today?

Patriarchal stereotypes remain, persist, and are omnipresent. Societies, in general, detest changes that take them out of the familiar and established frameworks. Indeed, things were much worse during the interwar period. Especially in the 1930s, when Nazism and fascism were on the rise, women’s organizations focused on ensuring peace. After all, throughout Europe, the recognition of political rights for women was delayed. In France, which championed the slogan “liberty, equality, fraternity” during the 1789 Revolution, women’s right to vote was only recognized in 1944! Equality progressed after the historical decisions and declarations of the UN in 1945 and 1948.

Regarding the role of trade unions and the feminist movement in Greece, was there cooperation and mutual support with common claims? Is this a successful relationship or does it need to be re-evaluated, in your opinion?

In my book, I write about the very difficult relationship between the trade union and feminist movements. I also developed union activity at OTE, where I worked for 23 years, so I know the situation from the inside. Look at the composition of the boards of organizations at all levels, both for workers and employers. The math reveals the truth. It’s as if there are no women workers in Greece! In the last GSEE congress, in February 2020, only 2 women were elected to the new 45-member board of GSEE. In 1989, 4 women were elected! The conclusions are yours! Of course, there are women workers who are fighting their own battles on the front lines, in factories, workshops, hospitals, and various services. Their struggles and demands usually don’t find receptive ears. Collective labor agreements rarely highlight the needs of women workers. This is why initiatives must be taken by young women workers, along with a dialogue with trade unions, so that a different framework is created that includes women as well.

Can you describe the ways in which women have benefited and continue to benefit from Greece’s accession to the EU? What needs to be done for us to align more quickly with the EU acquis?

Greece and women in particular have benefited greatly from Greece’s accession to the EU. With the accession in 1981, a wind of modernization and Europeanization blew into Greece. However, this was followed by a long period of continuous conflict between the Greek-Christian tradition and the European values of modernity, which continues to this day. It was only in 1983, with the reform of Family and Criminal Law, that we left behind the Ottoman legacy with the abolition of the dowry, the decriminalization of adultery, the elimination of the distinction between children born inside or outside marriage, etc. The 1980s were the most significant for the promotion of legal equality. In recent years, during the economic crisis and the pandemic, there has been stagnation and an intensification of gender-based violence. On the women’s side, there is also not much momentum from below. The feminist movement, with the possible exception of the 1970s, has never been mass-based. From the 19th century and the “Ladies’ Newspaper” of Kallirroi Paren to today, women’s rights and gender issues have been promoted and fought for by small groups of educated and aware women through feminist organizations and women’s studies in universities. Much of the responsibility lies with the women themselves, who, under the harsh pressure of patriarchy, surrender their vital interests without a fight. This is what my book aims to address: to inform and mobilize women. Knowledge of history is needed to plan for the future!