Eleftherotypia

Landmines, despair, and poppy fields.
Interview of Anna Karamanou with Mary Pini.	11. 11. 2002

**Anna Karamanou with members of a 10-person family in the center of Kabul.**

“I am not optimistic that Afghanistan can close the gap that separates it from developed countries. There is a tradition of violence that requires a lot of work to eradicate.”

With this assessment by the president of the Committee on Women’s Rights and Gender Equality of the European Parliament, Anna Karamanou, our conversation began about her experience from her recent visit to Kabul, where she traveled as part of a six-member delegation from the European Parliament.

We met with Mrs. Karamanou at her home in Athens. Describing the current situation in Afghanistan, she spoke of the absence of human rights, particularly for women, the widespread presence of landmines in the country, and the struggle of the ruling authorities, representatives of humanitarian organizations, but most of all the women themselves, to survive.

* What was your first impression?

“That we were in a third-world country with very low social and economic development. The images on the dirt roads convinced you that there would be very great difficulties in development.”

* And the people?

“They live in shacks, without bathrooms. The public baths and hammams are destroyed by the Taliban. Today, the government has deemed them heritage sites and is restoring them with UN and humanitarian organization funds, so that people can wash! The market was also in a miserable state. The only things you could find to buy were carpets and traditional jewelry. We were also struck by the fact that there were many bicycles, but women are forbidden to use them. Poverty and deprivation were pervasive, and a foreigner can see this from the children who surround him, begging.”

Women continue to wear the burqa, and very few have discarded it. Those who have done so hold public positions and have replaced it with the hijab. They do not dare to remove even the hijab because they receive threats to their lives.

* What else distinguishes the lives of women?

“Many things. For example, a large percentage of women die during childbirth due to the lack of medical or familial assistance. Every half hour, one woman dies in childbirth. Only 1% of them are fortunate enough to be cared for by a doctor, trained midwives, or relatives. According to statistical data, Afghanistan ranks second in population mortality, after Sierra Leone. The main victims are primarily women and children.”

* What do you think is the root cause? Poor infrastructure, the non-existent healthcare system, or Sharia?

“The stereotypes of social and cultural perceptions, to which Sharia (the religious law of fanatic Muslims, according to which a woman must not only have her husband present but also have his approval to visit a doctor) has contributed, are the main reason. The rest concerns the healthcare system, infrastructure, etc. Consider that to travel 70 km on a dirt road takes 6 hours! So, even if the husband consents to his wife going to the doctor or the hospital, the woman will die on the way.”

* an we talk—under such circumstances—about a healthcare system?

“It is in a terrible state. There are no hospitals. Kabul has those built by the UN humanitarian organizations that were operating in the country during the Taliban era and still operate today. In rural areas, there is nothing. With the new government in Afghanistan, the Swedes and Italians have taken over the healthcare infrastructure sector.”

* Afghanistan was targeted to expel the Taliban. Has this been achieved?

“No, they are ubiquitous. They dare and move as we know them. They also appear on TV with their mullahs. Their mentality is blatantly present. They control the province, i.e. more than half of the country.”

* So, there is no security?

“Security exists in Kabul. Outside the capital, no one can guarantee anything. Furthermore, in large areas of Afghanistan, landmines have been scattered, and there is no interest in collecting them. Outside of Kabul, the warlords’ militias are in control, despite the efforts of the Germans, based on the Bonn Agreement, to train police officers. In fact, locals and foreigners working on various missions ironically call Karzai not the president of the country, but the mayor of Kabul. Afghanistan is not a cohesive state with a central government. The laws do not apply, there is no order, there is nothing.”

* How were you received by the government and the general public?

“Very well. We had contacts at all levels. The most moving interaction was with the women’s organizations. At a gathering organized by the Women’s Forum in Bamiyan (the city where the Taliban destroyed the Buddha statues), we spoke with women ranging from 13 years old to elderly women. Imagine that the average life expectancy for both men and women is 47 years, and you’ll understand the age distribution. There, the women themselves took the floor and tried to speak.”

* What could they say?

“Everything. We were shocked when the women admitted that, for the first time in their lives, they were speaking publicly. They were ashamed. They hid their faces under their hijabs and couldn’t even pronounce their names. The 13-year-olds saved the situation. One of them, Adella, is a teacher. However, she explained that half of the day she goes to school to learn to read and write, and the other half she teaches first graders. This is because there is no teaching staff, and illiteracy has plagued the country for the past 20 years. The schools are segregated by gender.”

**Do parents allow the education of their children?

“Now, yes. This is the big positive change that occurred with the Karzai government. We even visited a co-ed school in Bamiyan, 400 km from Kabul. The tragic thing, however, about this entire change is that the Taliban are not only still present and unrepentant, but they are also becoming more aggressive.”

**What do you mean when you say they are becoming aggressive?

“They are responding to girls’ education. Last month, pens with explosives were thrown into the precincts of the girls’ schools, with the aim of maiming or even killing the female students. The attacks are instigated by local mullahs because they don’t want women’s education.”

**What did the women ask of you?

“Peace, peace, and not war.”

**And what did they condemn?

“That they are being blackmailed. That they are being used as bargaining chips to resolve property disputes.”

**Meaning?

“They are kidnapped by various gangs. This means abuse, rape, forced marriage, etc. Also, honor crimes exist. We learned that in order to resolve property disputes, girls are exchanged between opposing families and many marriages are forced. It happens, 13-year-old girls marry older men, in exchange for the “compromise” resolution of their families’ property dispute. If they attempt to run away from home, they are imprisoned with fines. I asked for the names of these women so that I could intervene for their release.”

**How is the country’s economy?

“Tragic. The cultivation of poppy is starting again, back to previous levels. In 1999, the country produced 5,070 tons of opium per year. During the bombings, production dropped to 2,500 tons. This reduction tripled the prices, which made people ‘sweeten to the money.’ Today, production has reached 3,700 tons. The government is unable to enforce laws and maintain order, especially in the countryside. Thus, the control of rural areas is in the hands of the mullahs, and no one dares to challenge them.”

**What do the Afghans know about the outside world, and how are the media?

“Nothing. Because they haven’t learned to care. Now, some voices are beginning to be heard, and journalism schools with foreign teachers or Afghan expatriates are starting to operate. We visited one such school. It is taught by an Afghan who lived in France for many years. Among the students, there are eight girls with very good performance, particularly in handling the camera.”

Do they wear the burqa?

No, a headscarf.