“We are a country almost in a civil war.”

Former MEP Anna Karamanou

“‘We are a nearly civil war country,’ says former MEP Anna Karamanou (PASOK 1997 – 2004), in an interview with LOGOS. She believes that the current effort of her political space for reconstruction can succeed, but only under conditions and European standards, because the times of the ’80s and ’90s are irrevocably gone, while she does not avoid referring to the past, present, and future of Greece.”

“Only if the renewal takes place from the ground up.”

In response to the first question, about whether PASOK can be restructured and play a leading role in the country’s political scene, she does not hesitate. “My answer is clear. PASOK must be renewed from the ground up, both in ideas and positions, and must keep up with contemporary reality. Times have changed. We are neither in the 1980s nor in the 1990s. PASOK must synchronize its steps with everything that is modern, democratic, and innovative in Europe.”

For its time, PASOK did a good job, but also made mistakes.

We observe that with this answer, she shows that PASOK has lost its footing for some time now, as she understands it. She responds by saying, “Every situation has its advantages and disadvantages. PASOK brought significant changes to Greece, but also made mistakes. There are no perfect governments or perfect parties. Every government has both positive and negative achievements. This was the case with PASOK. For its time, the 70s and 80s, it did a good job, with the most important being the redistribution of income for the underprivileged, as we used to say, and National Reconciliation.”

We remind her of the country’s economic situation, but she believes that back then “we lived the best period of prosperity and development,” dismissing our observation that prosperity at the time was based on borrowed money. “The only thing PASOK did not pay attention to was the populist tendencies that were created within PASOK, with some moments being uncontrollable.”

Where exactly does she focus this reference? “I am referring to the ‘avriani’ movement. Back then, there was an attempt to associate Mitsotakis with Nazism. It was a mistake. Mitsotakis was a Venizelist, democratic, and I was deeply offended by this,” she said.

We do not learn from history.

She deepens her criticism further. “We did not work much at the level of ideas. It is a fact that Greece did not participate in the European Enlightenment. The values and ideas of the European Enlightenment have not yet been instilled in Greece. The values of solidarity, freedom, equality—values that would help make our lives better and more humane. However, Greece did not participate, and this has affected all the parties and all the citizens.”

She shows us the book she is currently reading. It is “Seven Wars – Four Civil Wars – Seven Bankruptcies” from 1821 to 2016, by Giorgos Dertilis. Ms. Karamanou believes that “We are a country almost in a civil war,” with her view that “… we do not learn from History, nor does History repeat itself, as we often say. Greece today is at the bottom among the countries of the European Union. A country in bankruptcy. We have been bankrupt seven times, as Dertilis says, due to bad governance.”

The first memorandum was a tragic and fatal mistake.

At this point, she expresses her confusion. “I don’t know what causes this civil-war-like atmosphere among us. I don’t know why all political forces and the entire political system did not unite and cooperate when the crisis broke out in 2009, 2010, to save the country. At that time, PASOK bore the entire burden alone. That was a mistake. One of the mistakes made by George Papandreou when he signed the first memorandum and the entry of the International Monetary Fund on his own. A tragic and fatal mistake. He could have called all political forces together to save the country, and not have one party make these critical decisions. What happened then? George Papandreou was undermined by New Democracy, New Democracy was undermined by Tsipras with SYRIZA, who undermined any change.”

A realistic solution is human capitalism.

She believes that “In Greece, the Communist Party (KKE) still dominates, and its reaction to Europe remains strong,” and in response to the question of whether today’s Syriza has any connection to what the KKE advocates, she said, “The root of Syriza, its origin, is the KKE, which is why their views are the same, such as statism and opposition to privatizations. Let’s remember what happened with Cosco, when they blocked the Port of Piraeus to prevent the contract from going through. Now they’ve changed because they saw there’s no other political solution. Today we have capitalism. There is no other system. We must therefore consider how we can have capitalism with a human face, as the Scandinavian countries have achieved. This was never really understood here. The ideas of the Left, statism, clientelism, nepotism, and public sector appointments dominated.”

The people’s responsibility is great.

The fact that Greece is in bankruptcy shows the failure of the political system. It also implies the responsibility of the Greek people themselves. I do not say that the people are innocent, nor do I flatter them, as populists in Greece do, emphasizes the former MEP. When asked whether the saying by Theodoros Pangalos “we ate together” has any substance, she replied that it indeed does. “Of course it does, because the people did not react to certain logics and rewarded not the most competent and the best, but those who flattered them the most. The people are not innocent. They must reflect, use their minds, and not think with the minds of others. The crisis in Greece is not primarily economic. It is primarily cultural. It is a crisis of ideas, a crisis of the political system, a crisis in the way the people think, act, and choose. We have reached the point of abolishing the ‘Aien Aristeuein’ (Ever to Excel), our guiding principle, as I remember when I went to school. I remain a modernist, a Europeanist. I am in favor of Europe and European values.”

Kyriakos Mitsotakis is better than Syriza.

In response to our observation that a current argument presented by the Syriza government is, “After us, who? Kyriakos Mitsotakis?”, Mrs. Karamanou has her own opinion. “Mitsotakis is better than Syriza and Tsipras. Mitsotakis is at least a modernizer. I remain in my place, the center-left.”

We are unworthy of our ancestors.

In response to the question of whether the current movement within the Pasok, with ten candidates vying for its presidency, could bring about change and positive results for the Movement, Ms. Karamanou said, “This is possible if each one sheds their egocentrism and if they accept the final result for whoever is elected, and that person will be the one to lead and rebuild the place.”

Finally, she stated, “There is always the middle way and the golden mean, which Aristotle spoke about. There is a very large percentage of people who are neither with the Left nor with the New Democracy and the Right. I am in favor of the middle way that Aristotle showed us many years ago. Let’s go back a little and see what the values and ideas of the philosophers who were born and walked in this place were. But we have proven ourselves unworthy heirs of them.”