WOMAN

‘I have the courage to DEMAND

interview with Anna KARAMANOU, Member of the European Parliament from PASOK Μarch 2001

Before becoming a Member of the European Parliament, she was an active feminist, and before being a feminist, she was a person sensitive to injustice. Olga Bakomara discovers that on her journey from Pyrgos to Strasbourg, Anna Karamainou remains true to herself: a woman who demands everything from authority and from the opposite sex.

The faxes marked with the European Parliament’s insignia, which have continuously arrived at my office for the past four years, sparked my interest in getting to know the woman who signs them. They outline the portrait of a Member of Parliament in constant action, with a clear stance and substantive initiatives on the issues facing modern humanity, particularly women. Before settling in Brussels, she was the Secretary General for Gender Equality and has spent her life as a trade unionist and activist, championing the rights of women and workers, operating within PASOK.

Today, as a member of the Presidency of the Socialist Group in the European Parliament, Vice President of the Socialist International Women, and a founding member of the Political Association of Women—an initiative she conceived—she is also involved in all committees that fight for the rights and freedoms of citizens, particularly in the Balkans and, more recently, in developing countries.

The interview took place at her home in Athens, a tranquil penthouse adorned with classic furniture and devoid of unnecessary embellishments, which complements her character well. It was during the holiday season, and the table was laden with sweets sent by friends, including dates sourced directly from Africa. She presents as a confident individual who inspires trust, evident not only in her facial expressions and features but also in her movements and the timbre of her voice. This atmosphere set the stage for a conversation that reflects her extensive experience and commitment to advocating for women’s rights and social justice.

She is constantly on the move. Strasbourg-Brussels, she travels endlessly; yesterday she might have been in Albania, the day before in Senegal, and tomorrow in Iraq or Israel. Every Thursday afternoon, she takes a flight from Belgium to Athens, and every Monday morning, she flies back to return.

Doesn’t that tire you out?

No, on the contrary, I enjoy it. I feel great when I go to Brussels and even better when I leave. The experience of being a Member of the European Parliament is thrilling! You never get bored. Every day, there are so many things to learn and do, to collaborate with different people in a cosmopolitan and multicultural environment. I love the diversity. I believe the European project is an astonishing political endeavor, unique in history.

Many express skepticism about whether it will turn out well for us..

There is indeed strong skepticism and doubt. But I am a supporter of the European idea and European unity. We live in an era of tremendous scientific and technological advancement, and we will learn to coexist and collaborate with others, whether we like it or not. I believe this is both inevitable and beautiful.

Politics, besides being… nice, is also an easy endeavor for women?

It is a tough endeavor. Success and power, both economic and social, are often associated with men. Expectations for us are different. We are expected to be nurturing mothers, good wives, obedient and submissive. There is a devaluation of femininity, which is compounded by our own low self-esteem and confidence. This is natural, given that we are constantly bombarded with messages of devaluation from almost all segments of society.

>Does this apply to women politicians as well?

Absolutely. Even if they deserve it, even if they have shown that they are outstanding, they are often undervalued. Take Melina, for example; she was incredible, and many times I felt that she was underestimated.

How many other Greek women politicians do you consider successful?

Vasso Papandreou, Dora Bakoyannis, Maria Damanaki, and Anna Diamantopoulou are all successful. I consider myself successful as well and feel very fortunate to enjoy this position after so many years of hard work, of course.

Do you think the world would be better if women were in charge?

I absolutely believe that, and it drives me to fight for gender equality, the reduction of competition, and the establishment of relationships based on cooperation, companionship, love, and peaceful coexistence. I believe that if men and women governed together, if there were a balance between the genders in politics, we would have a more balanced society.

Despite all this, women, first and foremost the Greek women, show no inclination to engage in politics

We are indeed the last country in the European Union and one of the last in the world on this issue—Sweden is first. We are also the only EU country that does not border any of the others, while one foot is planted in the East. These perceptions still influence us; we live under a peculiar Balkan patriarchy, in an environment hostile to women’s participation in politics.

However, in other countries, participation is not encouraging either. Why is that?

The reasons are cultural and political. There has been a historical exclusion of women from public life. Consider that until a few centuries ago, women had no rights to education, science, or art. In the Middle Ages, a woman who dared to step even slightly outside her traditional role could be burned alive. At least the man was put to death first. Only in the last century have we emerged from the darkness and obscurity of many centuries. And we have achieved almost everything.

What are our achievements?

The right to paid work, education, equality before the law, and the right to vote. Now, our main demand should be for balanced participation in public affairs.

I think that many women themselves are not particularly interested in this. Many give the impression that they want their comfort, to have a good time, and to be well-established.

It’s not the women’s fault; it’s the culture. I can’t blame them; that’s how they’ve learned, and the standards are imposed by those in power. It is true that those who engage in politics and genuinely want to participate in public life, like successful professional women, are the exception to the rule.

Are they women of a special category?

They are women who rebel against a traditional way of life and challenge the norms. Television is flooded with these standards: the flirtatious woman, the beautiful one, the thin one, the coy one, the submissive one. I tell young women, “First your career, and then family.”

This perspective, this slogan, is attributed with significant responsibility for the blow that the institution of the family has suffered in our time.

When the family means death for women, then it deserves to be challenged. It cannot continue to exist as it is at the expense of women’s aspirations and dreams. Women have the right to a career just as men do. Until now, there has been a complete imbalance within the family. Women have borne the entire burden, sidelining their personal ambitions, and often found no validation for their sacrifices.

Now she has also taken on work outside the home.

This burden is preferable to the drama faced by many women who abandoned their careers or put their degrees in frames, and by the time they reach fifty, they find themselves alone, without income or pension. Their children have left or started their own families, and many husbands, following prevailing trends, seek younger partners in their twenties.

Therefore?

Therefore, women must learn to stand independently at all costs and create the foundations for a dignified life. It is not dignified to live off someone else’s income. Dignity comes from living off your own income and being able to support your family with it, just like men do.

Ultimately, are you for or against the family?

I am in favor of a healthy family. A healthy family is one where there is a fair distribution of obligations and responsibilities, both inside and outside the home, and where no sacrifices are required for survival. Otherwise, we need to find other ways to coexist.

What is the European Union doing about all this?

Thanks to the European Union, a regulatory framework has been established in support of women’s rights—one of its central committees works on gender equality and equal opportunities. Women’s participation in public life is a serious concern for us, and it’s not easy given the automatic negative reactions from men. Every position a woman takes is one less for a man. There was a huge uproar just to include a few women on the ballots. Another major issue is that of violence.

Is there indeed an escalation, as you write?

I can’t say for sure, because in the past, incidents of violence were closely guarded secrets. Now they are reported. However, violence against women is a fact; I don’t believe there is a woman who hasn’t experienced some form of violence, whether psychological or physical, from the opposite sex. In Greece, statistics from the Center for Abused Women show that violence occurs not just in lower social strata, but across all levels. This is again connected to the prevailing norms.

We live in an era that glorifies violence, where a man being violent is often seen as a sign of strength. Conversely, when a woman is violent or commits a crime, she is labeled with derogatory terms and compared to hyenas, tigers, and all wild beasts. And yet, women have the lowest crime rates, below 5%, in all European Union countries.

And in Greece?

Of course. Korydallos women’s prison is the only women’s prison in our country. Only 390 are female prisoners out of a total of 8,295 prisoners. Women are less violent than men, I passionately support this, prisons are filled with males, not females. Historically, women have been associated with violence.

What is the explanation?

Perhaps it’s because I have lived in different spaces, specifically in the private sphere. If women were to achieve full equality in public life tomorrow, would they become as violent as men? I don’t have an answer to that. However, I believe that, atavistically, women are more nurturing; they advocate for the protection of life. They give birth to children, not to have them kill or be killed. That’s why all global peace movements are largely composed of women.

However, despite her achievements, the modern woman seems to experience significant loneliness.

Loneliness is more pronounced among women because very few enjoy the benefits and rewards of a successful career.

I meant loneliness in relation to the opposite sex, which primarily affects career-oriented women.

It’s true that women who conform to traditional roles tend to be more appealing. A successful woman is often seen as less desirable and can repel men, whereas women are attracted to a man’s success. Few men feel joy and pride in their partner’s achievements, and even fewer support them in reaching their goals. Most engage in a power struggle within their relationships.

From a competitive, oppressive, and miserable relationship that robs a woman of her dignity and autonomy, loneliness is better… Because advancement, career, is the area that is rewarding and will never disappoint them. The other area, of interpersonal relationships, can give them exciting moments and much happiness, but it can also deeply disappoint them… But still, I wonder what we should say when looking at the women of the developing world?

What positions have you seen there?

The lives of women in Africa have shocked me. It’s a hell; living conditions are miserable, rights are nonexistent, from the right to education to the right to pleasure—evidenced by the millions of clitoridectomies that still occur. We have many battles to fight to improve their lives and, above all, to free them from these horrific perceptions.

Do you have role models?

There are women I really admire for their personality and contributions, such as Melina Mercouri among the Greeks, and from abroad, the former Prime Minister of Norway, Gro Harlem Brundtland.

And men?

Kostas Simitis and George Papandreou. And Andreas Papandreou, in the past, was the charismatic, charming, very attractive, and very romantic man—the charming man in every sense of the word.

What do you like about Mr. Simitis?

I admire his integrity and his commitment to the goals he sets. No one believed in the European Union, the great miracle he achieved in record time. With George Papandreou, with whom I have worked closely in the past, I was moved by the fact that what he spoke about before becoming a minister, he put into practice when he went to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

What brought you to politics?

The interest I showed from a young girl in what was happening around me and my tendency to defend what is right. Everything I did in my life since then, whenever I got involved, was driven by this need to contribute.
>Were they your roots?

I don’t know, but certainly the province and its views influenced me and made me sensitive to issues of our gender. I was born and raised in Pyrgos, where I realized very early how unjust and harsh society is for women. Because there were double standards—one for girls and another for boys. The boys could play football and return home at any hour they wanted; we could not. It was unthinkable for some teachers to let a girl hold the flag, even if she was the top student.

Were you the top student?

I was always an excellent student, even though I wasn’t a nerd. And that was one of the satisfactions of my childhood, which I would describe as rather happy… My best memories are connected to a estate we had outside of Pyrgos, where we spent our summers. There was a huge olive tree there, where I would sit, making dresses for my dolls under its shade, singing. I really loved singing.

But you didn’t become a singer

In the end, I didn’t have talent, and I wasn’t interested either. My role model, or if you prefer, a person who marked me as a child, was an aunt of mine, my father’s sister, who was a teacher. She was the strong figure in the family, a very dynamic and pioneering woman for those years. Even today, I meet her former students who ask me about her.

Pioneering in her attitude towards society?

As for her teaching methods. She dared to do things that were unthinkable in difficult times and fought for issues like students staying in the same class—she considered it a significant cost for society—which were adopted many years later in our educational system. The other issues were great taboos; who would dare to oppose them I fell in love when I was eighteen, and I would have been considered quite scandalous according to the culture of the area and family customs if I hadn’t gotten married

Did you get married?

Of course, I didn’t enroll in the university where I succeeded; I was hired by OTE and, of course, I got married to a man with whom, although he was a wonderful person, I ultimately didn’t match… We had our daughter, and that’s how my life would likely have gone on if I hadn’t met the second person, after my aunt, who marked me.

Another man?

My old gymnasium principal, Dimitris Tsigouris, an excellent man, in fact a theologian. I met him in the summer of ’74 on a trip to Pyrgos, by chance, while walking with my husband and daughter on the street, and I happily greeted him. He returned my greeting rather coldly and, looking at me with disdain, said, “Anna, I expected more from you.” It was a shock; it shook me.

And what did you do?

I immediately enrolled in university and completed my studies in English philology. Since ’74, I also joined PASOK, while at the same time, at OTE where I worked, I became active in trade unionism and became even more aware of women’s issues. I saw the discrimination against women, such as pay inequality, there.

Today, what do you consider to be the major problems of our time for humanity and its future?

The danger from the astonishing advancement of technology and science, which resembles an atomic bomb that can be used for destruction. And also, this incredible poverty in the world on one hand, and the immense wealth on the other, where as globalization progresses, we see the gap widening instead of closing.

Does it infuriate you?

Of course, I consider it the biggest problem and the greatest challenge of our time. Hunger in the Third World is a stain on our civilization, a shame and disgrace for us. We are the lucky twenty percent who live well, while eighty percent of the world’s population is malnourished, and millions live on less than one dollar a day. Meanwhile, we present ourselves as champions of citizens’ rights and individual freedoms.

We present ourselves?

Yes, because our interest is more rhetorical. And it’s not only the individual rights and freedoms of citizens in the Third World that are violated. There are serious violations, judging by the decisions of the European Court, even in the countries of the European Union, regarding detention conditions in prisons or police stations, for example.

Let’s step away from rights for a moment. Did feelings like love play a role in your life.

It played a very significant role. Love is one of the most beautiful things in life. I fell in love passionately, experienced exhilarating moments, but also the disappointment and pain that love brings. I married the two men I loved, and I would like to fall in love again.

Two marriages and two divorces, then

Yes, two marriages and two very successful divorces.

Does that mean you have a good relationship with your ex-husbands?

No, it means that the decisions for those divorces were the right ones.

Other people you love?

I adore my daughter, I adore my two granddaughters, I love my friends very much, I enjoy their company, I defend and support them to the death. I have a small property in Syros, where I go whenever I can. For me, the countryside, even for just one day, is a source of joy, renewal, and energy.

Union activist, fighter, a dynamic woman; can we say that you are also a woman who fears nothing?

I am very sensitive to injustice, human suffering, and the oppression of the weak, and at the same time, I am a woman who has the courage and strength to fight for what is right. I do not fear life.

Death?

I don’t have irrational fears; death and life are two sides of the same coin. I think about death very often, but I don’t find answers to the philosophical questions that have been raised and remain unanswered. What is the purpose and meaning of our lives, since we come for such a short time? Just when we start to learn and gain experiences, we realize we don’t have much time ahead of us. Is this a violation? It’s unfair.

It’s the only unfairness that you cannot, nor can we, fight against

It really is.